Thank you Facebook, for today’s blog post!
So the following discussion occurred this morning on a friend’s Facebook page. I have taken quite the hiatus from discussing and/or debating things political, as it was causing my politically snarky attitude to spill over into regular life. Now I like to snark as much as the next person, but there comes a point when I must hit the pause button on perpetually banging my head against the wall while being summarily dismissed with a barbed insult. Wanting to kill people on a daily basis is not good for my overall attitude, so…
No more Soapboxers Facebook group for a while (Hear that, Dwight Klovstad & Cleave Frink?).
Keeping my political opinions more to myself (on FB, anyway) than not.
When I do jump in, it is because conviction & principle compell me to do so.
And if it’s going to make me want to kill my friends, leave it (and maybe blog about it later…:-D).
With that preample, here is a good, substantive exchange from a good friend’s FB wall, which I have reproduced here with his permission.
SB: These are possibly the 5 best sentences you’ll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.4…. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.LWS: Amen.ND: This is true, but the issues we are dealing with in our country are not part of this. We do have well fair programs, but it serves individuals who are in difficult situations. The issues needing solved in our country deal with the wages people who are working get. Changing the minimum wage to a living wage. As well as everyone paying a fair share of taxes. No one in our country is asking rich people to provide for the poor. People are asking for our country to find mire opportunities for the poor to better themselves. More jobs, better pay at existing jobs.LWS: That is not the government’s job, [ND], and the only way the government can do that is to take money from someone who has it & give it to someone who doesn’t. The government does not produce wealth, people do, and when they are penalized for doing so, it creates the shortage of opportunities for the poor to better themselves.KC: Amen [LWS].SB: Welfare by and large serves to enslave people to that system, Nathan. There are 2nd, even 3rd generation Welfare recipients who have no desire ( but plenty of bodily ability ) to do better by themselves and FOR their families. It is just another government lie that’s been fostered on ignorant and lazy people. For those who are truly disabled and unable there is a difference. I have no respect however for able bodied men and women who can and should work to continue living on the government nickel–which is really my nickel and your nickel! http://www.facebook.com/SolaGratiaSB/posts/112965362159563TP: The unfortunate thing is that none of those five points matter to people whose fundamental idea is economic justice is only achieved by absolute income equality. When that’s their bedrock concern, then these five issues are responded to with:1. Prosperity isn’t what they’re worried about at bottom;2. income is a human right, so there is no proper notion of “earning”;3. the government’s job is to regulate the nation’s income and distribute it according to its principles;4. They’re not concerned about multiplying wealth – only evenly distributing it;5. As long as the income produced is enough to feed, clothe and house everyone via the nanny state, they’re happy.ND: If business owners don’t choose to pay people a living wage then how else can it be done? The government creates laws. Some laws are good for the country. Some are not. Some laws could help create more opportunities. How do you suggest solving the issues many working Americans face? There aren’t great paying jobs just waiting for everyone.SB: Spot on [TP]!LWS: [ND], the government arbitrarily setting whatever constitutes an agreed upon idea of “living wage” will never be an actual living wage. Why? Because when business are required by law to pay an arbitrary minimum, prices are always (ALWAYS) adjusted to absorb the cost of it. The end result is that everything gets more expensive. When the market is allowed to freely work as it should, and businesses have to compete with each other for workers by paying truly competitive wages, everyone wins. If a company is not paying a “living” wage, then people will not take the jobs. They will go elsewhere and take a job with a wage they can live with (or live on). Further, these minimum wage jobs that you state should be “living wage” jobs were never meant to be career jobs on which to support a family. Are you saying that a breadwinner who has made no efforts to do anything other than flip burgers or drop fries is entitled to a wage that should rightfully be the result of acquiring more skills and moving up the ladder? That promotes laziness. You’re ok with that?SB: Working hard ass jobs, low paying Jobs were the best motivator for me to haul my sorry butt to college, [ND]. I knew no one would hire me to make a high wage with just a H.S diploma. I had my fill of assembly line work, mind & body numbing manual labor. Obviously, abilities vary. I knew I wanted more than mind & body numbing, so I set out to remedy the problem the best way I could. That task was not easy either, working full time and going to college almost full-time was difficult, but rewarding.That’s what this country is all about–the land of opportunity to do better for one’s self and family.LWS: Keyword = opportunity. NOT results.LWS: “There aren’t great paying jobs just waiting for everyone.” <– And there shouldn’t be. Those jobs are earned…they are not gifts.TM: When I lost my job in ’09 and applied for unemployment, the processor was so proud and excited when she told me that I could draw unemployment benefits for up to 99 weeks thanks to the extensions the Obama administration had passed. I was in shock. Certainly thankful for the availability of the benefits should I require them that long. But after I left the office it dawned on me…if most people could only find jobs with wages that paid the same or less than they could draw in unemployment, most of those people would probably just as soon sit at home and wait for the unemployment check than to actually get a job and work to earn the same or less. In that scenario there is no incentive for people to find a job until their benefits run out. My response to the processor was “I pray to God I don’t have to rely on it for that long (it also hit me that the 99 weeks calculated into almost 2 years!). After a couple of months of sending out resumes and no job, I enrolled in real estate class, got my license and went to work selling real estate. I didn’t sit by and hope there would be more extensions for benefits and expect the government to take care of me. But it’s clear that if we continue down the path we’re headed that’s exactly where we’ll end up, with a nation of people who are completely and utterly dependant on the U.S. government for their provision.SB: Well said [TB]!ND: Why would you assume the extension is bad. It makes sense in an economy where it has been hard for people to find jobs. Also you have to have a job that pays into unemployment to get unemployment when you get laid off. It a safety net to help people until they find work. An extension might not be needed in every case, but for those who need it that might mean the difference of losing their home.ND: There are many college students graduating with degrees and passion which can’t find jobs. My reference to “great jobs waiting for everyone” was related to that. Not that anyone should get a great paying job just because.SB: One of the reason WHY your college friends can’t find work has everything to do with all the Hope & Change you were promised in Obama and his policies, Nathan. Instead you’ve seen business tank on a grand scale as a result of his socialistic policies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hrg1CArkuNcFrom a lecture given by Dr. Milton Friedman in Erie, Pennsylvania (1978). This i…s essentially a restatement of the “parable of the broken window.”SB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmqoCHR14n8Milton Friedman explodes the myth that government can provide goods and services… at no one’s expense.ND: Actually its been reported the economy is slowly improving.SB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKc6esIi0_UIn response to questions, Professor Friedman explains how capitalism is a more e…ffective approach to the alleviation of poverty than is socialism.SB: The question is, [ND]: IS IT fast enough for YOU…IF YOU or one of your friends is out of work? Probably not.ND: Im not saying im 100% correct or that I have the perfect solution.LWS: That’s one & the same, [ND]. Just because they have gone to college & have a passion does not mean they are entitled to a good paying job. They are entitled to the opportunity. They are entitled to complete. But they are not entitled to the job. They must earn it…in this case by being the best entry level candidate (and I do mean entry level). The idea that a college degree should autmatically entitle you to a good salary is ridiculous. Salaries are dicated (or should be dictated) by a fully (and freely) functioning private sector. And government jobs…well, that’s another issue altogether.ND: We have a very free and unregulated financial sector. It didn’t seem to work. That was the cause of the recession.BB: Steve, I respect your opinion, however, we can only blame ourselves for the problems of this country. Did we pray enough, did we serve enough, did we give enough? The word of God tells us to love our brother as ourself. If we did that, w…e would not need government to feed, clothe, and take care of those who can’t or will not. We need to put the blame where the blame belongs and I’m afraid my friend it is not with our political figures. May we learn from our mistakes and ask forgiveness and help from the Lord to change our hearts and our way of thinking and blaming and begin to do what the Lord commands us to do!